Narratives in Experimental Films?

Well today in small groups we talked alot about the film Variations. People seemed to really like it overall, but nearly all agreed that it was strictly experimental, and had no notions toward narration. I can see their point and overall I agree, but I can also see how argumewnts can be made for both sides. The pictures were all random, untied images of everyday items, only viewed in a new way. I think some experimental films can have narration, but I didn't see anything in this one. Of course, then you get to the question, what is narrative? I took the liberty of looking up definitions online, and was interested to see that nearly everyone has a different opinion of this word! The simplest definition I found is this:
1) having a story or idea.

Simple enough; maybe a little TOO simple. For instance, WHOSE story is it? WHAT kind of story? I like this one a little better:

2)a descriptive account of a specific event or series of events

Except, does it truly have to be descriptive? Does this mean I have to tell everything that happens? Or can a narrative be implied? For instance, if I am talking about Variations, with tons of random images thrown together, there is nothing descriptive about that. Does that mean it is not narrative? I don't think so. I think you can have a narrative that is more implied than spoken or laid out for you, or in other words "described".

I felt this one was the best, and it seems to allow for a narrative in experimental film:

3) A complex term referring to a sequence of events organized into a story with a particular structure

In other words, a structured idea built by events. Variations didn't have much structure, since it wasn't telling a story, or at least not a story that we are used to hearing, but it was a sequence of events, and there was certainly a theme. The theme was appreciating the little mundane things in life and being able to see them differently. Perhaps even to show us that there is art in the world all around us, if we would only stop and look. We often go through life without paying attention to the wonders around us. Variations was trying to show us what we were missing. Is this not an idea, and are these not e vents? But there was no real structure of images throughout the film. (Or perhaps even that can be argued!) But I didn't see any in the film.

Now if we move on from here to other experimental films, like say Market Street, is there narrative there? I think so. This narrative was more implied than "described". It was structured as well, leading us through all aspects of the street, and even culminating in a brief long shot of the road that we had seen fragmented throughout the film. The events could be the pictures that were flashed before our eyes, but that could also be the patterns that were created with those pictures, creating circles and grids and lines. Maybe this wasn't telling a story outright, but it was a series of events in a structured order, and in a way it showed us Market Street. Is this any different than a documentary film that decides to tell us about Market Street outright? Is this perhaps not even more interesting to watch? In a sense we are made to feel how those on Market Street feel, to the extent that no other documentary film could ever make us feel just talking about the street. The harried pictures and the patterns created seemed to lead us to believe that Market Street was an important area, perhaps always busy, but still structured and not without purpose in the community. We could be told this through a strict "story" but we could also be implied this through a more abstract storytelling, like seen in experimental film. They both have their place, and both, I think are narrative.

This of course, does not mean that every experimental film is narrative. I find that several are, but just as many are not. Some are strictly about artistic images and testing new technologies, whereas others are like a video poetry; they tell the story in a more abstract, almost hidden way. Sometimes this way can be better, just like sometimes poetry can be better than a book. Then again, as much as I enjoy writing poetry and will occasionally read a few poems (but not often) I will still pick up a good book over a poem any day. Perhaps it's preference and preference only. Perhaps not.

As for "can experimental show up in narrative"? I say, isn't this what we were just discussing? If we can say that experimental film is meant to show art and test new technologies rather than tell a story, but it can STILL have a narrative anyhow, then certainly narrative films can use experimental aspects in its narrative. In fact, what would narrative film be without experimental aspects? The very word "experimental" implied something untested, and unknown whether or not it will work. In other words, new territory. Granted, alot of Hollywood films would probably not want to use experimental aspects in their films because it IS untried, and they are about the guaranteed buck. But other films can be experimental and narrative in one. I truthfully still prefer Hollywoodized structured storylines, but this is because I love stories. I love to write them especially. I love creating worlds and situations and interlating all the characters. But this does not mean there is not room for experimental ideas in narrative film. Sometimes it can work. One film I felt did this well was one we saw last semester in Film 210. I think it was a Hitchcock film, but I don't remember the title. I just know it was not film noir but it felt greatly like it and it used the German Expressionism of abstract patterns and dreamlike sequences to show the man's fantasies. Things like this can truly add to narrative films. As long as there is a balance these two can coexist, but the balance has to be carefully maintained. Then again, if experimental film wants to stay random and daring and artistic like some of the films we saw in class, there is no room for something like that in narrative film. It would just make no sense, because narrative film has structure and experimental film can often have no structure. Therefore any random experimental images that are thrown into a narrative film become narrative because they must add to the overall story...or else it would no longer be a narrative film!